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Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
By:Mike Savage
Date: 3/4/2008, 5:33 pm
In Response To: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1 (Tommy)

: "Greenland paddle is more efficient"
: "Greenland paddle is easier on your body"

: Really, let's take a look: 1 "More efficient" ?
: There is a Latin term used in the field of logical reasoning "reductio
: ad absurdum".
: All English speakers will intuitively understand its meaning.
: "Reduction to absurdity" applied to greenland paddle: since the low
: profile of greenland paddle is what makes it "more efficient" ,
: the ultimate greenland paddle will be a round stick.
: Round stick produces very little resistance hence must be uber-king of
: greenland paddling.
: The fact that round stick will do little to move the boat forward and a lot
: to produce vortex as it moves through the water
: greenland paddle proponents will conveniently skip.

: 2. "Easier on your body" ?
: Yes, since it produces less resistance, our muscles do not work as hard.
: What about the frequency and total stroke count? It takes more 'greenland
: strokes' to move the boat a given distance.
: Our bodies do have a hard lifetime limit how many times we can bend our knees
: or swing our arms. Greenland paddle uses up that limit faster.
: Muscles are very adaptable and resistant to wear and tear. The tendons and
: joins are a different story.
: Greenland paddles go easy on the 'sturdy' subsystem (muscles) and hard on the
: vulnerable ones.
: If large-blade paddle feels too hard to pull through the water, there is
: simple solution: Apply less force.
: You will be easier on your body yet still efficiently move the boat, not stir
: the water.

: So why there are armies of die-hard greenland paddle users and proponents?
: Well, greenland paddle has it's (albeit narrow) niche: when the wind really
: blows hard, or there are no materials to make larger blade,
: greenland paddle will do.

: Still, the large blade "euro" (why it is called this) paddle
: evolved for a good reason - most of the time and for most people it is
: superior to greenland stick.

: Ah, but it's so pleasant to believe in the "wisdom of thousands-year old
: traditions", the undiscovered but charmingly green lands of fuzzy
: logic, the thousands of inhabited planets beyond our solar system, the
: bigfoots roaming mountains on the horizon, large monsters swimming in
: Scottish lakes, Masonic lodges ruling the capital markets,
: Elders of the Zion setting fiscal policy and spooky action at a distance
: entangling elementary particles.

: In fact, to the contrary to what Ray Kurzweil writes in the "Singularity
: is Near", the un-rational and non-logical is what truly
: differentiates humans from, well.. the non-kayaking population.

Hi Tommy,
What a nice back-handed compliment.
I don't know of Ray Kurzweil or his writing but yes, the non-kayaking population is un-rational and non-logical.
:)

Ok, about more efficient. And the latin, "reductio ad absurdum" doesn't apply to the greenland paddle, the Inuit didn't speak Latin. Maybe the earliest paddles WERE round, that would be the easiest thing to find, a branch for instance. Then it was found that flatter wider sticks worked better. Hence the flattish branch a GP resembles.
But do we mean 'more effective' when we use 'more efficient'? That put a new shade on things.

"Easier on your body" ?
Actually yes. But not because it has less resistance than a similar blade-sized EP, it's more due to the more gradual power application. An EP has the entire blade buried at the very start of the stroke with maximum resistance from the start. The body has to cope with this suddenly, hard on the muscles and joints. A GP reaches a similar resistance but later in the stroke where the body position can apply large effort without stressing joints and muscles.
Having both EP and GP, I can say that the GP is actually easier on the joints, particularly the shoulder. My limit with an EP is about an hour at touring pace on the sea, (I don't paddle rivers), and I wouldn't be fit to paddle the following days.
With the GP, I can keep going until my legs start going to sleep. Usually, your elbows are fairly close to your body during the more stressed part of the stroke, your shoulders are much less vulnerable.

Armies of GP wielders? Where? :) Well, for me A GP costs about 10-20 euros of wood and some spare time. I have enough. An EP would cost at least 70 euros or a few hundred for a good one. So, for about 20 quid, I get a custom sized, hand carved paddle that could probably fend off a grumpy seal, or used as a push pole without breaking.

The broad blade paddle was more probably developed to cope with shallow water like rivers where a long slim blade would be at a disadvantage.

If you look at old rowing boats, pre-engine, you will see that most blades were long, slim ones, particularly working boats. The gradual loading on the blade and rower let the rower work for much longer than a spoon type blade. A GP or other narrow bladed paddle lets a hunter travel longer if necessary without exhausting himself. The less tired you get to achieve a successful hunt, the higher your survival rate. Less strain injury incurred over time, the longer the hunter's hunting-lifespan, the higher the survival rate.

Mike Savage
South West Cork
(Psst, bigfoots' shave and have social securtity numbers) :D

Messages In This Thread

Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Tommy -- 3/4/2008, 12:16 pm
Re: Myths keep dreams alive part 1.1
Bryan Hansel -- 3/7/2008, 8:22 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Greg H -- 3/7/2008, 9:41 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Acors -- 3/6/2008, 10:00 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bryan Hansel -- 3/6/2008, 9:22 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 9:58 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Donovan -- 3/5/2008, 11:19 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/10/2008, 9:02 am
Nah, can't be...
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/10/2008, 9:03 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
John D. -- 3/5/2008, 3:09 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
John Monroe -- 3/6/2008, 7:23 am
Re: Other: Newsflash for Tommy
Kris Buttermore -- 3/5/2008, 11:59 am
Re: Other: Newsflash for Tommy
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 12:52 am
Re: Other: Newsflash for Tommy
Kris Buttermore -- 3/6/2008, 2:14 am
Re: Other: Newsflash for Tommy
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 9:55 am
Re: Skip the BS, Here's A Question
Mike Scarborough -- 3/5/2008, 9:50 am
Maybe Here's An Answer
Paul G. Jacobson -- 3/7/2008, 4:50 pm
Re: Antique paddles
Mike Scarborough -- 3/8/2008, 9:25 am
Re: Skip the BS, Here's A Question *Pic*
Aaron H -- 3/5/2008, 1:18 pm
Also look at Umiak oars.
Kris Buttermore -- 3/5/2008, 11:31 pm
Re: Also look at Umiak oars.
Mike Scarborough -- 3/6/2008, 8:54 am
Re: Also look at Umiak oars.
Mike Savage -- 3/6/2008, 10:35 am
Re: If I Read You Right
Mike Scarborough -- 3/6/2008, 11:46 am
Re: If I Read You Right
Mike Savage -- 3/6/2008, 2:32 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/5/2008, 5:35 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 12:46 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/6/2008, 1:07 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 4:03 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1 *Pic*
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/7/2008, 10:47 am
New t-shirt design for determined paddler! *NM*
Charles Leach -- 3/8/2008, 8:08 am
Re: New t-shirt design for determined paddler! *Pic*
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/8/2008, 1:12 pm
Re: New t-shirt design for determined paddler!
Bill Hamm -- 3/9/2008, 1:48 am
New Paddling Group: The Dustbin Lid Paddlers
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/10/2008, 8:57 am
Re: New t-shirt design for determined paddler!
Mike Scarborough -- 3/8/2008, 1:56 pm
Re: New t-shirt design for determined paddler!
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/11/2008, 7:11 am
Re: Seconded *NM*
Mike Scarborough -- 3/8/2008, 9:13 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Todd Sullivan------WebKitFormBoundaryrBPL64w206cse -- 3/5/2008, 8:16 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1 *Pic*
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/7/2008, 11:50 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/7/2008, 5:56 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Mike Savage -- 3/5/2008, 8:33 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Etienne Muller - Ireland -- 3/5/2008, 9:14 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Robert N Pruden -- 3/5/2008, 7:26 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Mike Savage -- 3/5/2008, 11:52 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Alex Ferguson -- 3/5/2008, 3:51 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Chris Ostlind -- 3/5/2008, 8:33 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
John Monroe -- 3/6/2008, 6:55 am
Wow! That's what I get for not being online much..
Robert N Pruden -- 3/5/2008, 7:23 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Scott Shurlow -- 3/5/2008, 6:46 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/5/2008, 4:51 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Alex Ferguson -- 3/6/2008, 5:28 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
John D. -- 3/5/2008, 7:45 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Alex Ferguson -- 3/6/2008, 5:35 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 12:44 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
John D. -- 3/6/2008, 4:41 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Mike Savage -- 3/6/2008, 5:54 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/6/2008, 9:50 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Kris Buttermore -- 3/6/2008, 2:04 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/9/2008, 7:53 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Bill Hamm -- 3/9/2008, 7:51 am
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Kris Buttermore -- 3/11/2008, 11:10 pm
so when is that singularity?
LeeG -- 3/5/2008, 1:14 am
Uh, Tommy?
Greg Fojtik -- 3/4/2008, 10:55 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Paul G. Jacobson -- 3/4/2008, 9:53 pm
Gee. I can't wait for part II :) *NM*
Paul G. Jacobson -- 3/4/2008, 9:38 pm
Re: Other: Myths keep dreams alive part 1
Mike Savage -- 3/4/2008, 5:33 pm
Classic Cabin Fever! *NM*
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/4/2008, 4:44 pm
Someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?? *NM*
Kudzu -- 3/4/2008, 1:49 pm
Ad hominem dressed in reductio clothing
Pozamua -- 3/4/2008, 1:37 pm
Re: Ad hominem dressed in reductio clothing
Robert N Pruden -- 3/5/2008, 7:16 pm
Re: Ad hominem dressed in reductio clothing
Bryan Hansel -- 3/6/2008, 9:25 am
Re: Ad hominem dressed in reductio clothing
Robert N Pruden -- 3/6/2008, 6:25 pm
Incorrect interpretation of intent
Tommy -- 3/4/2008, 3:40 pm
It seems you intended to be a jerk
Brian Nystrom -- 3/5/2008, 8:55 am
Re: Incorrect interpretation of intent
LeeG -- 3/5/2008, 1:17 am
Re: Incorrect interpretation of intent
Pozamua -- 3/4/2008, 4:18 pm