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Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
By:Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K
Date: 3/23/2008, 4:03 pm
In Response To: Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest! (Mike Bielski)

: Hi All-

: I claim responsibility, I guess, for building the hornet's nest last week.

: I can't argue with Rob at all, in the least. He has shown his ability to use
: his system flawlessly. But, it doesn't mean that other systems won't work.
: Using sandpaper improperly or with poor technique can cause many of the

: same problems attributed to using planes, and faster if you're using power
: tools. The point for everyone is to find the combination that works for
: you personally. I still think that it's a matter of personal taste. Some
: people are better with sanders, and some people are better with planes.

: If you go to a museum you will see the absolute most amazing cabinetry you
: have ever seen in your life, things that haven't been built that well in
: 200 or more years and probably couldn't be duplicated today, and they were
: produced without power tools of any kind, let alone sanders or sand paper.
: Even the multitude of curved pieces. Building curves was a way to show you
: had mad skills.

: I use a range of planes and spokeshaves, and even the occasional carving
: gouge. I don't want anyone to have the impression that I do everything
: with one plane, or even that you can. Also- I couldn't make it work
: without sandpaper, either. Part of the issue, I'm sure, is that planes
: don't work unless they're ultra-sharp, and sharpening is a skill that
: takes more than casual practice so it's hard to do if you don't do all it
: of the time.

: And what's the deal with glue? Scrapers are for glue! If you guys are
: cleaning up glue slop with planes get better glue or clean up as you go!
: :)

: m

I also use a big paint scraper to remove the glue off my strip joints. Several of the inter-changeable four edged blades are shaped on a grinder into a curve to scrape the inside surfaces of the hull. The key to scraping chatter free is to start with the blade handle almost perpendicular to the wood surface.

I can't argue with you Mike, that the ends can be achieved in different ways and certainly there was boat building before Random Orbital Sanders came along.

There is a difference, which I'm trying to convey to the novice builder.

Knowing the theory, defines what your goal is, which is everything.

I have not seen the theory/goals of strip building clearly stated.

Theory: Clear, straight grained, wood strips, can naturally create fair curves when bent. Wood strips, glued edge to edge and tacked to hull forms, can naturally create a fair boat hull.

Goal #1- Align he edges of your strips.

And everything that aids this is important, like having consistent strips thickness.

Goal #2- Strips must fully contact the stations and stems.

If your strips are not attached to the stations they can and will come away from the stations so that new strips can twist in order to contact the stations setting up a cascading problem of an irregular surface. This can happen with stapleless stripping methods that do not fix the strip to the station.

The resulting hull when goals #1 and #2 are met is perfectly fair and needs very little surface work. A line down the center of each strip is perfectly fair and is your reference for maintaining the fairness of the hull during surface leveling.

A plane has a fixed depth of cut and narrow width of cut, that limits it's ability to bridge high spots. A plane is also limited it that it must travel laterally with the grain of the wood to prevent tear out. The rigid metal sole of the plane cannot conform to a curved surface. Plus you must first learn to sharpen a plane blade to shave the hair off your knuckles and you must learn to understand the charactor of wood grain

All these shortcomings can be overcome by the skill of the craftsman.

And there is the rub.

Do you want to spend years developing the skills of a craftsman or do you want to build one boat?

The skills a person can learn over years of work are fantastic, no doubt about it. There are people in the far east who build reproductions of Chippendale furniture using sharpened screw drivers! This is their life's work.

Just how involved do you want to get? Some people do want to be craftsmen and building a boat is just a side road down a journey they started years ago.

BUT, I'm addressing the novice builder who wants to build one boat, who isn't ready to enter a craftsman's apprenticeship.

So for THIS novice the path must be clear and simple. We learn the theory so we don't have to spend a lifetime rediscovering lessons from the past.

As a professional builder selling plans, with the expectation that my clients may have very little woodworking experience, I need to present the task clearly and simply. I don't expect you to be my apprentice.

I believe leveling the surface of a stripper with a plane creates unnecessary hurtles for a novice.

Using a ROS to level a hull following the points I've outlined is simple. You don't have to learn to sharpen a plane iron, you don't have to learn which why the grain is running and you don't have to guess where and how much to plane.

I use the same techniques because it is fast and simple.

I know how wonderful it is to plane wood, to hear that sound and see the curls.

I have to try to make a couple dollars an hour so I don't have the luxury of sipping wine while I savor shavings.

Time marches on and technilogical progress makes work easier. Inuit people are using power boats and rifles to hunt. I don't think too many are pining for the good old days in kayaks with spears.

If you choose to enjoy working over a hull with a plane that is your choice. I want novices to know it is a choice and one I don't think is best for them.

There is a lot of work in building a stripper. I prefer a fast and simple technique that lets me focus my energies on more creative aspects of the project.

My hope is that this information will give novices that choice also.

Rob Macks
Laughing Loon Custom Canoes & Kayaks

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Confucius

Messages In This Thread

Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/21/2008, 1:51 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Acors -- 3/25/2008, 3:14 am
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/25/2008, 2:24 pm
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Bill Hamm -- 3/26/2008, 1:14 am
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Mike Bielski -- 3/25/2008, 6:25 pm
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Glen Smith -- 3/25/2008, 4:05 pm
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/25/2008, 5:42 pm
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
PatrickC -- 4/1/2008, 10:01 am
Re: Tools: Waterboarding and ....
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 4/2/2008, 7:33 pm
:)
kelly t -- 4/2/2008, 9:15 pm
Re: :) :) :) (:
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 4/3/2008, 8:01 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Bielski -- 3/25/2008, 11:22 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Todd Sullivan -- 3/25/2008, 9:32 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!------WebKi
Jay Babina------WebKitFormBoundaryAF6vd4C7eld+PENR -- 3/25/2008, 8:51 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Bielski -- 3/23/2008, 12:35 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Bill Hamm -- 3/24/2008, 1:33 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/24/2008, 11:40 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/24/2008, 8:29 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Bill Hamm -- 3/25/2008, 1:22 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/25/2008, 2:41 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Bielski -- 3/25/2008, 6:06 pm
Sanding is Skill Free?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 3/25/2008, 5:59 pm
Re: Sanding is Skill Free?
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/25/2008, 10:54 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Savage -- 3/24/2008, 10:01 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/23/2008, 5:47 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/23/2008, 4:03 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Savage -- 3/23/2008, 12:57 pm
Glue
Todd Sullivan -- 3/23/2008, 9:06 pm
Re: Glue
Mike Bielski -- 3/24/2008, 12:06 pm
Re: Glue
Todd Sullivan -- 3/24/2008, 9:48 pm
Re: Glue------WebKitFormBoundaryVBozkArD+XRe82MN
Mike Bielski------WebKitFormBoundaryVBozkArD+XRe82 -- 3/25/2008, 11:15 am
Re: Glue
Bill Hamm -- 3/25/2008, 1:18 am
Re: Glue *Pic*
Etienne Muller -- 3/24/2008, 11:21 am
Re: Glue
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/24/2008, 11:26 am
Re: No access...
Björn Thomasson -- 3/25/2008, 12:30 pm
Re: No access... *LINK*
Dan Caouette (CSFW) -- 3/25/2008, 1:18 pm
Re: No access...
Björn Thomasson -- 3/26/2008, 4:21 pm
Re: No access... *LINK*
Glen Smith -- 3/25/2008, 12:48 pm
Re: Glue
Etienne Muller -- 3/24/2008, 11:38 am
Re: Glue
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/24/2008, 12:48 pm
Re: Glue
Etienne Muller -- 3/24/2008, 2:02 pm
Re: Glue
Mike Savage -- 3/24/2008, 9:16 pm
Re: Glue------WebKitFormBoundaryAJKY9jM9qs+BHftt
Dan Caouette (CSFW)------WebKitFormBoundaryAJKY9jM -- 3/24/2008, 11:47 am
Re: Glue
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/24/2008, 8:34 am
Re: Glue
Mike Savage -- 3/24/2008, 6:47 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
C.W. -- 3/22/2008, 8:51 pm
Re: Stung,
Paul Sylvester -- 3/23/2008, 7:00 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest! *NM*
C.W. -- 3/22/2008, 8:26 pm
Still waiting for Spring to come?
Mike Scarborough -- 3/22/2008, 9:22 am
Re: Still waiting for Spring to come?
Etienne Muller -- 3/23/2008, 7:44 am
Re: Still waiting for Spring to come?
Doug Smith -- 3/22/2008, 3:38 pm
Re: Good Advice *LINK*
Pawistik -- 3/22/2008, 12:40 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Rob Macks / Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/21/2008, 2:13 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Todd Sullivan -- 3/21/2008, 7:10 pm
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Jay Babina -- 3/23/2008, 7:41 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest! *NM* *LINK*
Barry -- 3/29/2008, 6:54 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Todd Sullivan -- 3/23/2008, 10:32 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Mike Savage -- 3/23/2008, 7:59 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Etienne Muller -- 3/23/2008, 7:29 am
Re: Tools: I'll wack the hornet's nest!
Todd Sullivan -- 3/23/2008, 9:15 pm