Well I guess we're getting a little OT here, but since it's your board, Nick, I guess that's OK.

: "Art" is completely in the eye of the beholder. I don't think large
: prints of soup cans, or glass tanks containing pickled animals are art,
: but some people do. I think a box full of tools can be art, but most
: people don't. I wouldn't pay much beyond the cost of materials plus
: minimum wage for a stretched piece of canvas paint blue, but some people
: will pay much more.

I don't have any formal training in art appreciation but I've always felt that "art" is something created to convey an idea or evoke an emotion above and beyond the piece itself. For that reason, if someone looks at my boat and says, "wow, man, that's a work of art!" (not that anybody has) I'd appreciate the intent of the compliment, but in reality I don't think of my boat as my "art" - a display of craftsmanship, perhaps, but art, no.

: I guess this makes me unqualified to comment on the "art" value of
: a canoe, but one thing I am sure of is the monetary value of any object is
: exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, no less.

I'll buy that.

: If I were to suggest an almost sure fire definition of "art" it
: would be "Any object for which a customer is willing to pay more than
: the materials and labor to create the object are intrinsically
: worth." Just about any "art" object in a museum today would
: meet that definition, even if it fails to convey some idea or even look
: nice. No artist can be called a success until they are able to earn a
: profit on the sale of their art. Unfortunately, achieving this standard of
: success does not depend exclusively on the aesthetic sense, ability to
: convey an idea or craftsmanship of the "artist".

I don't think you can equate artistic success with monetary success. There are plenty of artists "Thomas Kincaid: Painter of Light", for example, that are competent painters, but highly skilled marketers. More power to 'em. There are undoubtedly a lot more sculptors, photographers, writers that are able to convey a powerful idea or emotion through their work but are living on mac and cheese.

: Most of the builders on this board strive at some level to make a boat which
: is something more than just a boat. At some level we want to instill
: something "artistic" into the boats we make. Most of these
: efforts require more effort than the bare minimun neccessary to make a
: functional boat. We do this by selecting different woods, arranging it in
: patterns, striving for tighter joints, smoother surfaces, and generally
: putting more care into every step of the process than is strictly
: neccessary.

I'm calling that "craftsmanship" - an admirable skill, to be sure.

: At what point does the result transend the boundary from boat to
: "art". Is it possible? Does the effort have any value? Why don't
: we just by the cheapest wood available, hold it to forms with sheetrock
: screws and then paint it grey?

Ya know, a battleship gray kayak held together with sheetrock screws would actually fit my definition of "art". You would have to stop and think about that thing for awhile.

: Regardless of what anyone thinks of Phil's implentation, is what he is
: striving to accomplish (making boats that will qualify as art) worthwhile?

Phil looks like a hell of a craftsman to me.