Boat Building Forum

Find advice on all aspects of building your own kayak, canoe or any lightweight boats

Re: integral rudder...again
By:Nolan
Date: 8/25/1998, 6:46 am
In Response To: integral rudder...again (Tom Scheibe)

Could you describe this rudder again in a different way? I can't quite visuallize what you've done. I'm coming up with essentially a box kite hanging down with strange funnel cones everywhere. I'm very interested in what it really looks like.

> Some months ago, focusing more on how it would look than how
> it would work, I built an internal rudder that when deployed, projected
> perpendicular to the hull, thus working as a brake instead of a rudder.
> (And not very well at that)

> Still focused on aesthetics, but more knowledgeable about what
> constitutes turning momentum, I’ve since built another integral rudder
> that actually works. Essentially, 3.5” down from the sheer line, I
> cut out a 4” X 11” section from the stern of my 20’ Pygmy Osprey double.
> I installed a bulkhead 3” forward of the cut out, and for strength,
> filled the keel and sheer sections aft of the bulkhead with epoxy/silica.
> I enclosed the top and bottom of the cut out “rudder” section. To
> avoid turbulence when deployed, I fitted a matching conical piece
> to the open end, then drilled the centers of the circles and the reinforced
> sheer and keel sections for the full length rod that would rotate
> the rudder. Once everything was fitted, the rudder matches the hull
> lines with about 1/16 inch clearance at the top and bottom The vertical
> cut in the hull very closely matches the rudder while the conical
> section rotates inside the hull. The opposite side stays flush to
> the hull due to the matching conical shape. You can see it's a rudder,
> but it conforms perfectly to the lines of the boat. (Similar to Dagger’s
> Sitka rudder, but stronger due to the keel, and, I believe, more effective.
> : Sea Kayaker review-Oct ‘97)

> At prox. four knots, with the rudder fully deployed to 35 degrees,
> the Osprey turns 90 degrees in less than twice her length and feels
> a bit like a car’s rear wheels breaking loose in a power skid. This
> is great, but there is an unanticipated effect. The glide of the Osprey
> is now so much better, I wish I had some way to quantify the difference.
> Even my ethereal wife, who has been known to obliviously paddle with
> her blades reversed, said, “Tom, what happened... why is it paddling
> so easy?” Too subjective, I know. I understand a normal flip up rudder
> causes some turbulent drag, but the change doesn’t simply feel like
> less drag, it feels qualitatively less. A skeg’s drag is used to correct
> for weathercocking. Is it that significant? Short of expensive tank
> testing, does anyone know of a way to measure/calculate the difference.
> It’s obviously not a real problem, just pleasantly perplexing... like
> my wife.

> Thanks,

> Tom

Messages In This Thread

integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/24/1998, 7:03 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- 8/30/1998, 12:01 am
Re: integral rudder... another question
Nick Schade -- 8/31/1998, 5:51 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- 9/4/1998, 5:29 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Tom Scheibe -- 8/31/1998, 2:18 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Joe Greenley -- 8/29/1998, 2:21 pm
Re: integral rudder... Dagger Atlantis
Mark Kanzler -- 8/31/1998, 12:07 am
Re: integral rudder on Dagger Sitka
Ross Leidy -- 9/1/1998, 1:54 pm
Please describe control cables
Pete Ford -- 8/25/1998, 7:47 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 11:23 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Bodnar -- 8/26/1998, 6:03 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- 8/27/1998, 4:29 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 6:55 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 6:49 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan -- 8/25/1998, 6:46 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 4:36 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 5:11 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/26/1998, 6:31 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/26/1998, 2:30 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/26/1998, 3:06 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 12:07 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/27/1998, 3:19 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:09 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 7:05 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 11:08 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 3:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 10:55 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 10:59 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 3:24 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 11:10 am
Re: integral rudder...again
chris_rolt -- 8/28/1998, 7:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 11:34 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 11:49 am
Re: New BBS Format
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 4:49 pm
A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Tom W. -- 8/25/1998, 3:19 pm
Re: A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 3:55 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
John Lange -- 8/25/1998, 1:01 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 3:52 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
John Lange -- 8/25/1998, 4:25 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 4:37 pm
Re: 24' x 26"??
Wynne -- 8/27/1998, 3:04 pm
Re: 24' x 26"??
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:21 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 10:55 am
Re: Flow tank testing.
Mark Kanzler -- 8/24/1998, 8:37 pm