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Re: I'll bite
By:mike allen --->
Date: 5/3/2001, 5:11 pm
In Response To: Re: I'll bite (Lee Gardner)

Hi lee

in my first post, i try to put a meaningful definition out of art. and then i ask(rhetorically to myself mainly) a series of stepping stone questions that may lead up to helping me(us) see where along the path one of these craft or paddles fit it.

the steps were:
craftsmanship->boat craftsmanship->design->art. and then i related the original post to us and what meaning it may have and then if that understanding affects whether or not it meets that extra test of art.(i blew it on this latter part)

these stepping stones helped me to pull apart the different competing aspects of phil's work and come to some form of conclusion.

so to go with the food analogy, you've come into a high priced restaurant and the main course comes. It comes out on beautiful plate, the finest bone china porcelain imported from the south china seas, but it has 4 short nubs or legs and they're not quite the same length (but you don't notice it now) and the plate is quite flat, no much of a dish to it. But on its own, it looks spectacular.

on this plate is the main course exquisitely cooked and presented. but as you stare down in wonder, a slight smell arises. You take up the utensils and go to slice off a pc of the meat and the plate rocks. And then a dribble of meat nectar drips off the side from the slightly too flat but exquisitely made plate. You take a slight peck at the filet and it tastes the same as the supermarket daily special. etc etc etc.

Its a plate and beautiful. Its a meal and beautiful. Is it art?

to be food art, the taste has to knock you out as well. BUt it doesn't.

so to be boat CRAFTSMANSHIP , it has to be a greatly crafted BOAT. Is it even this?

I say it is exactly like the wood harley's you mentioned. beautifully put together, but not the pinnacle of making loriders or retros or choppers or customs. whats closest to art: the bike by arlen ness or the wood bike? (unless its a sketch prototype or pattern-but thats something fairly different)

so it doesn't get past extraordinary craftsmanship.

but i also am saying we're sinners casting stones.

-mick

Messages In This Thread

Where is....
Joel -- 4/30/2001, 10:21 pm
Wow, this is way out of control
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 9:58 pm
Re: Hey, this is the Builder's Forum
Geo. Cushing -- 5/4/2001, 5:29 pm
Uh, I didn't start this thread here. *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/4/2001, 9:41 pm
Re: all this.....
daren neufeld -- 5/3/2001, 9:00 pm
Re: all this.....
Liz Leedham -- 5/4/2001, 8:44 am
Re: most likely... *Pic*
Ross Leidy -- 4/30/2001, 10:47 pm
Re: most likely...
Jeff Fine -- 5/1/2001, 3:24 pm
The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 9:34 am
Re: Intolerance?
Spidey -- 5/3/2001, 10:03 pm
Call me Mr. Asshole
Rob Macks -- 5/4/2001, 12:13 pm
Re: Call me anything but call me
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 3:04 pm
Re: The Emperor's (beautiful) new canoe
edgar -- 5/3/2001, 10:52 am
Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Paul G. Jacobson -- 5/2/2001, 4:09 pm
Re: Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 4:34 pm
my two cents...from the cheap seats
brett (the hitman hart)onnink -- 5/2/2001, 9:38 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jeff Fine -- 5/2/2001, 3:43 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 4:37 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/2/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 8:26 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:51 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:50 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 9:10 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 10:34 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 7:09 pm
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:20 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:30 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 10:00 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 5:44 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jim -- 5/2/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: Bookshelves?
Geo. Cushing -- 5/2/2001, 1:03 pm
Re: OT#489
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 12:49 pm
Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/2/2001, 12:45 pm
Re: Hey Brian OT
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Sure, why not?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 12:04 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 3:02 pm
Re: I found it.......
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:59 pm
Since I'm much closer to being...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 11:54 am
What's wrong with gas guzzling SUV's *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 5:06 am
Re:I miss my Trooper (OT,no kidding)
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:02 am
is it provocative?
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:42 pm
put "won't" before the expletive *NM*
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:47 pm
intended provocation
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:00 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:11 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 5:39 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:55 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 12:04 am
Re: Very nicely put Mike *NM*
Ben Staley -- 5/3/2001, 5:25 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/2/2001, 6:12 pm
EVERYONE is qualified.
Paul -- 5/8/2001, 11:02 pm
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 7:14 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:01 am
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/3/2001, 4:08 pm
Re: What is art?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/4/2001, 11:34 am
Re: What it is.
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 3:48 pm
Re:eternal verities
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:11 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 6:43 pm
Re: worthwhile?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:33 am
Re: What is marketing?
Shawn Baker -- 5/2/2001, 6:30 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/2/2001, 4:12 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 3:58 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship does = seamanship
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 3:17 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship doesn't = seamanship
Tony -- 5/3/2001, 1:02 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, right on!
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 12:27 pm
Re: most likely...
peter czerpak -- 5/1/2001, 3:18 pm
Wow.
Jim Eisenmenger -- 5/1/2001, 7:29 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Macks -- 5/1/2001, 8:16 am
Re: Wow.
Arthur -- 5/4/2001, 8:55 pm
Re: Wow.
david -- 5/1/2001, 10:41 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Forsell -- 5/1/2001, 3:27 pm
According to the builder...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/1/2001, 12:32 pm
A fair price
Ed K. -- 5/1/2001, 2:24 pm