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Re: integral rudder...again
By:Nolan Penney
Date: 8/27/1998, 3:19 pm
In Response To: Re: integral rudder...again (Mark Kanzler)

Wish I knew how to draw pictures that I could include in a posting. So I'll try it with words instead.

My occasionally faulty and incomplete memory of ailerons on aerofoils was that they did two things:

1, they changed overall flow and lift. For an airplane wing, this is just the general pressure difference of the top verses the bottom, imparting roll forces in the case of the front wings, or pitch in the case of the rear stablizers.

2, they generated a torque about the aerofoil, similarly to a ships rudder, by the nature of sticking out from the side of the wing. That old force over a moment arm giving torque.

It's that second part that I think is turning his boat. But it does so differently then a totally seperate rudder in that it works with instead of against the fluid flow over the entire aerofoil. A symetrical one in the case of a kayak. Am I missremembering in this?

> There are two concepts in operation. The camber of the wing is
> increased on one wing and decreased (made negative) on the other.
> The aileron also throws air downward on one side, and upward on the
> other, which employs Newton's 3rd law (equal and opposite reaction).
>

> The camber of the boat as viewed from above does change (the
> boat becomes asymmetrical), and would cause lift on one side (the
> side the rudder swings toward) which would scoot the boat sideways
> (drift) a little. The chord of the aileron compared to the wing is
> much greater than the rudder compared to the boat's length, which
> means that there'd be less drift, and more turning moment. I know
> this sounds confusing, maybe I'll make a picture later if I get a
> chance.

Messages In This Thread

integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/24/1998, 7:03 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- 8/30/1998, 12:01 am
Re: integral rudder... another question
Nick Schade -- 8/31/1998, 5:51 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- 9/4/1998, 5:29 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Tom Scheibe -- 8/31/1998, 2:18 pm
Re: integral rudder... another question
Joe Greenley -- 8/29/1998, 2:21 pm
Re: integral rudder... Dagger Atlantis
Mark Kanzler -- 8/31/1998, 12:07 am
Re: integral rudder on Dagger Sitka
Ross Leidy -- 9/1/1998, 1:54 pm
Please describe control cables
Pete Ford -- 8/25/1998, 7:47 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 11:23 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Bodnar -- 8/26/1998, 6:03 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- 8/27/1998, 4:29 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 6:55 pm
Re: Please describe control cables
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 6:49 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan -- 8/25/1998, 6:46 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 4:36 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/25/1998, 5:11 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/26/1998, 6:31 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- 8/26/1998, 2:30 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/26/1998, 3:06 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 12:07 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/27/1998, 3:19 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:09 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 7:05 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 11:08 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 3:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 10:55 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 10:59 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- 8/28/1998, 3:24 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 11:10 am
Re: integral rudder...again
chris_rolt -- 8/28/1998, 7:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/29/1998, 11:34 am
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/28/1998, 11:49 am
Re: New BBS Format
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:14 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 4:49 pm
A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Tom W. -- 8/25/1998, 3:19 pm
Re: A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 3:55 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
John Lange -- 8/25/1998, 1:01 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 3:52 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
John Lange -- 8/25/1998, 4:25 pm
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 4:37 pm
Re: 24' x 26"??
Wynne -- 8/27/1998, 3:04 pm
Re: 24' x 26"??
Mark Kanzler -- 8/27/1998, 7:21 pm
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- 8/25/1998, 10:55 am
Re: Flow tank testing.
Mark Kanzler -- 8/24/1998, 8:37 pm