Boat Building Forum

Find advice on all aspects of building your own kayak, canoe or any lightweight boats

Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
By:Nolan Penney
Date: 10/7/1998, 6:53 am

> One of my points is that slipping is NOT like a low gear on a bike, it is
> like a slippery gear on a bike. A short shaft is like a low gear on a
> bike. It seems sort of silly to make a paddle easier to use by reducing
> its efficiency when you can do it with little or no loss of efficiency.

I agree with you on the slippery part, I just couldn't figure out how to incorporate it well into something that people would relate to well like a bicycle. They would relate though to remembering that the low gears on the bike were easy to peddle, even if you really didn't go anywhere.

Then I came up with a possibility. Remember back in chemistry lab when you had to stir up mixtures with the stupid little glass rod instead of a spoon. Oh you could really get that little glass rod a flying, but the liquids you were trying to mix just were not impressed. Hmm, the 7-11 coffee stirrer is nearly the same obnoxious way. Trying to stir enough to get the sugar disolved is nearly a lesson in zen!

As long as people could grasp that while the stirrer or glass rod moves easily through the water because it gets no grip and that is roughly akin to a thin paddle, and a wide paddle is akin to a spoon, it might work.

> Next time you paddle, look at how far below the surface you blade starts,
> or how much of the shaft is submerged. If you cut that much length out of
> your shaft you would get a paddle that is easier to push/pull without any
> loss of efficiency. You would get a lower gear without adding slip.

Well wait a sec there, while I agree with you that if your paddle blade isn't completely submerged you are wasting effective paddle use, I don't go along with barely submerging the blade always. Rougher water will cause a barely submerged blade to aerate and lose efficiency and propulsion force.

Also if a paddler has the strength to work with a longer shaft they will increase velocity and efficiency a bit because they are effectively using a higher gear. Getting back to bicycles, I use a higher gear (longer shaft) because I've got the leg muscles for it and am comfortable with it. There is of course nothing wrong with downshifting the bike or using a shorter shaft if that is more comfortable.

Length of the paddle isn't really the factor in slip as I understand it, it's the blade design. And while I agree with you that wider is generally better, it quickly becomes more difficult on your wrists with flutter and twisting. A greenland style paddle is more forgiving of sloppiness then a wide blade paddle is.

> I would take a paddle and make it as short as possible before reducing
> blade size. After you get it short enough adjust the blade, keeping it as
> big as possible while still being comfortable. This will tend to give the
> most efficient and lightest paddle with the lowest moment of inertia for a
> given ease of paddling.

I would basically agree with you, as my current paddle would reflect, a store bought paddle (gasp!) that doesn't collor coordinate (double gasp!!). It was an odd looking Perception design I found in a store discounted to something like $15. Nice paddle imo. The blades are so wide they're nearly square. It's also a break down paddle with three different angle settings. Kinda nice when I've decided my arms and shoulders are sore and exhausted enough from one style. Spoon shaped blades that dig in like crazy yet don't flutter, which I thought they would do. Hardest problem with that paddle with those huge blades is getting it up out of the water smoothly at the end of the stroke. You really have to pull it straight up along the line of the pole to do it smoothly easily and quietly.

Messages In This Thread

Greenland paddle links
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/2/1998, 10:27 am
Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Brian C. -- 10/2/1998, 11:01 am
I'll build one :)
Brian C. -- 10/5/1998, 6:39 pm
Re: you should
Nick Schade -- 10/6/1998, 2:42 pm
practice for when I get stuck on an Island
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 3:01 pm
Re: practice for when I get stuck on an Island
Jerry Weinraub -- 10/6/1998, 7:12 pm
Re: Laminated shaft
Don Beale -- 10/6/1998, 12:46 pm
Re: Laminated shaft
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/6/1998, 1:34 pm
is a ferrule worth it on a greenland?
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 10:22 am
Re: is a ferrule worth it on a greenland?
Don Beale -- 10/6/1998, 5:36 pm
reinforcing paddle tips
Paul Jacobson -- 10/4/1998, 9:11 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Paul Stomski -- 10/2/1998, 8:54 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/2/1998, 2:23 pm
Where I got the picture
Brian C. -- 10/2/1998, 4:04 pm
Re: Where I got the picture
Roger Tulk -- 10/5/1998, 12:44 am
Mr. Hitchinson's book has photos
Brian C. -- 10/5/1998, 11:02 am
Re: Mr. Hitchinson's book has photos
Roger Tulk -- 10/7/1998, 12:23 am
I guess we could contact a museum...
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 1:51 pm
OK, I did!
Roger Tulk -- 10/12/1998, 9:17 pm
Re: OK, I did!
Mark Kanzler -- 10/14/1998, 3:44 pm
Re: Mr. Hitchinson's book has photos
Mark Kanzler -- 10/5/1998, 11:53 am
Sorry, that's Derek Hutchinson
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 12:31 am
Don't know
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 12:25 am
Found the book
Brian C. -- 10/6/1998, 12:38 am
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Mark Kanzler -- 10/2/1998, 3:10 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nick Schade -- 10/2/1998, 2:12 pm
Mystical Greenland paddle
Jay Babina -- 10/5/1998, 10:10 am
Re: Mystical Greenland paddle
Nick Schade -- 10/5/1998, 6:30 pm
Re: Use what works for you.
Mark Kanzler -- 10/5/1998, 6:59 pm
Re: Use what works for you.
Nick Schade -- 10/6/1998, 2:28 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/2/1998, 2:47 pm
Wide vs. Skinny paddle blades
David Dick -- 10/6/1998, 9:14 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nick Schade -- 10/2/1998, 7:53 pm
length vs sprint/endurance
Brian C. -- 10/7/1998, 3:20 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Mark Kanzler -- 10/4/1998, 11:15 am
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nolan Penney -- 10/5/1998, 6:37 am
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nick Schade -- 10/6/1998, 6:25 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nolan Penney -- 10/7/1998, 6:53 am
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nick Schade -- 10/7/1998, 2:09 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nolan Penney -- 10/7/1998, 3:21 pm
Re: Paddle flutter
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/7/1998, 2:47 pm
Re: Paddle flutter
Nick Schade -- 10/7/1998, 3:49 pm
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Mark Kanzler -- 10/8/1998, 12:55 am
Re: Length of Ancient paddles vs the Modern counterparts
Nolan Penney -- 10/7/1998, 3:17 pm
Re: Cadence
Mark Kanzler -- 10/7/1998, 3:29 pm
Re: Punchline
Timothy - Toronto, Ontario -- 10/8/1998, 8:33 am
Re: Cadence
Nolan Penney -- 10/8/1998, 6:57 am